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A country haunted by demons LH: following the child case in Thailand - Israelis express distrust in conventional medicine


The case reported yesterday on Channel 2 news about an Israeli child staying in a monastery to be cured of cancer, is backed up (unintentionally) by a survey conducted by the Super-Pharm chain, according to which only 50% of respondents vaccinate their children, but they also give the child old-fashioned medicines or vitamins 'because they believe that assistant'.

An Israeli boy who was sent to be 'cured of cancer' in a monastery in Thailand. Screenshot from Channel 2 news
An Israeli boy who was sent to be 'cured of cancer' in a monastery in Thailand. Screenshot from Channel 2 news

Once again, a case of people who went too far with their anti-scientific beliefs is published, and this is only a few weeks after the deaths one after the other of the playwright Anat Gov and the mayor of Ariel Ron Nachman, when the two gave up conventional treatment (radiation, chemotherapy) in favor of drops concocted for them by a natural healer called Hanan Elraz In retrospect, the Ministry of Health discovered that they contain a toxic substance and closed the laboratory where they were produced.

If in the case of Anat Gov and Ron Nachman we are talking about adults who make decisions for themselves (although apparently conventional medicine failed to explain itself well to them and therefore they chose an alternative) the case where parents decide for their children to boycott modern medicine, and put them in danger is already a much more serious problem .

About two weeks ago it was reported in the media about Death of a one-year-old baby in Mea Shearim, in the family of the Sect of Questions (an extreme sect, even for the ultra-orthodox community, which among other things calls for women to cover themselves from head to toe). When the members of the Rescue Union asked her why she didn't vaccinate her son, she said: "We don't believe in vaccines."

Another case of distrust in conventional medicine was revealed yesterday on Channel 2 news when travelers encountered in Thailand in a 12-year-old Israeli boy staying there in the monastery so that the 'enlightened' monk would cure him of the blood cancer he contracted at the age of three and a half and came back and attacked him at the age of nine.

In an interview conducted by reporter Samdar Peled with the mother, she expressed a firm opposition to medicine in Israel. "What does medicine in Israel give me? Chemotherapy that damages the brain and all abilities to develop? What, cancer is a friendly disease like the flu that you get through? A person whose disease has returned twice is a closed case. So he has a few more years to live, maybe." she said, explaining why she sent her child to Thailand.

The hospital where the boy was treated provided a slightly more rational explanation when he said that the boy was sent to Thailand only after he finished the chemotherapy treatments, although even there they would still like to see him come to Israel for follow-up.

In this context, it was sad to hear host Danny Kushmaro and reporter Peled repeat several times in different ways that they do not judge the family for their decision. Too bad. The media should not only imply that something is wrong, but in such a case, leave journalistic objectivity and say that there are things that must not be done
(As appears from a report prepared for the BBC)

However, this morning the news company corrected the necessary when it published the The response of the chairman of the Child Welfare Council, Dr. Yitzhak Kadman who stated that this is a serious incident that must be dealt with urgently. "We received information about the matter and immediately contacted all relevant government ministries," said Kadman. "This is a very serious case."

Survey by Super-Pharm: Israelis are interested in alternative medicines

And after all these things, there are parties who seek to profit from the average Israeli's distrust of medical science. Our opinion on homeopathy is known (see links at the bottom of the article), it is the most puzzling field in complementary medicine. For those who have read the book "Cure or Temptation" by Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst, it is clear that even if among the medicinal plants you can find a few that do the action expected of them (and even those are rare), in homeopathy it is not clear how rational people are able to believe in the virtues of such a practice.

Homeopathy is built on the principle of diluting the substance that causes symptoms similar to those of the disease or, at best, a substance that does cure the disease but is diluted to a concentration of ten to the power of minus 28, which for any practical need means zero (mathematically, ten to the power of minus a million is more than zero, but practically, When it comes to material particles, this means that in one of several hundred thousand vials there will be one particle of the 'active' material).

A rather confused press release from Super-Pharm), is trying to promote a series of homeopathic flu remedies. In the announcement, SuperPharm provides the results of a survey conducted for it by the TNS Institute among a representative sample of the elderly population in Israel, where the line between conventional and alternative is quite blurred. Here is the title and subtitle (I didn't touch it) "A Super Pharm survey checked and found: about a third of Israelis treat their children's winter illnesses by combining conventional treatment with natural and homeopathic treatment" * About 50% of respondents who treat their children conventionally expressed a willingness to try natural and homeopathic treatment * about - 2/3 of the parents report that they give their children preventive treatment for winter diseases in the form of old-fashioned medicines, vaccines and vitamins"
From this we need to understand that grandmother's medicines, vaccines and vitamins are types of treatments of the same weight and in addition: "Half of the Israelis treat their children's winter illnesses with conventional treatment and about a third combine this treatment with natural or homeopathic treatment"

Later, Super-Pharm states that "in recent years there has been an increase in demand for homeopathic preparations or natural products for the treatment of winter illnesses in general and among children in particular. According to the findings of the survey, the expression of this is that about a third of the respondents stated that when their children get sick during the winter, they combine conventional and natural treatment together. Over 10% of the respondents stated that the only way they treat their children's winter illnesses is through natural treatment, which includes homeopathy, herbs such as echinacea, propolis and immune system strengthening preparations such as "myrtle booster".

Later we learn that the conventional treatment is only because of the habit (God forbid not because it helps). "Most of the parents who stated that they take care of their children through conventional treatment do so out of necessity (about 46%), because the treatment is quick and effective in their eyes (about 33%) or because it is the doctor's recommendation (about 27%). In contrast, the majority of parents, about 70%, who treat their children's winter illnesses through natural treatment stated that this way is preferred by them because in their opinion it is healthier."

According to Ilan Shaked, M.Sc. and Trade Manager of Pharmacy and Teva in the Super-Pharm chain: "The world of natural products for the treatment of winter illnesses, including for children, is increasingly taking a central place in today's world of pharmacy. Since there is no drug treatment for viruses except to treat the symptoms of fever and pain, more and more customers are looking for natural solutions ranging from vitamins and nutritional supplements to natural preparations for the treatment of various diseases. This trend is a consequence of the public's openness to experimenting with natural products and adopting the solutions after a successful and positive experience."

Another interesting finding from the survey is that about 50% of the respondents who treat their children in a conventional way expressed a willingness to try natural or homeopathic treatment "despite the high number of respondents (about 48%) who stated that they do not treat their children's winter illnesses through natural or homeopathic treatment, about half of them expressed Willingness to try such treatment in the future. Only one percent of those respondents were firm about the question and stated that they would not be willing to try natural or homeopathic treatment," the announcement said.

From the following paragraph it can be understood that Super Pharm advocates the New Age method in which every item has a right to exist, and every item has equal weight. "About 2/3 of the respondents give their children preventive treatment for winter diseases in the form of old-fashioned medicines, vaccines and vitamins." Obviously, this sentence speaks for itself. The public needs to be informed about conventional medicine, what it is able to provide and what it cannot provide, but also what alternative medicine is able to provide and what it cannot provide, and which of them, if any, are better than the placebo effect.

But if we give them credit, they want to earn. At least they won't convince people to give up conventional medicine. Those who, after taking a vaccine, want to spend money, should do so, but without putting themselves at risk (at least in the case of homeopathy, unlike other alternative medicines, there is no risk, except for the fact that you pay for water tens of thousands of times the exorbitant price at least what you pay to get it out of the tap).

Homeopathy - medicine of the future or idol medicine?

Delusions can kill
Simon Singh to the site of science: Complementary medicine services in the health insurance funds should be abolished

The overdose you don't die from

Comments

  1. Peace,
    Data analysis can show wide flexibility and criticality. At least as science is designed to do.
    Does 'science': Western medicine have full credentials for healing the situations in question?
    After all, for the sake of sensitivity alone, it is appropriate to allow skepticism about the results of such medicine.

    The results should be the truth. Not the apparently 'rational' analysis of homeopathy and the like.

    If you add Avi or others, detailed data of the discussed situations and their results according to the various methods, we will get closer to a proper standard. This is a caring expression of freedom of opinion, of the people = to preserve and perfect their lives.
    Alas for us if the school is important for its results. And the hint from dark times is well known.

    [and D.A. As far as I know, no such study has been conducted by an impartial entity so far worldwide]

    Thank you and health

  2. Yes, the naivety of the left, including Obama himself towards certain fundamentalist elements (usually Muslims) who do not want democracy, but let them take over many countries innocently as if it is the will of these peoples.

  3. B - I didn't go through everything -
    I just mentioned some of my own points that I didn't see addressed (there may be - I skimmed only part of the article)

    By and large, statistical research can more or less prove everything.
    Especially if he sins by the mistake of inclusion
    Example:
    Let's say that in a certain country there are different groups of population according to different parameters.
    Let's say there is more of a completely secular population and less of a traditional religious population.
    Let's say that the secular population has a negative population growth rate and the traditional religious population has a significant positive population growth.
    By and large, at the time of the test, the entire population has a negative growth - will this growth remain negative forever? Of course not because someday the traditional population will be more significant.
    As soon as you generalize everything together, you lose a lot of information and get mistakes.

  4. My father - we have had this debate a large number of times
    And although I'll always be happy for another round - that's not what I asked you.
    Is there something in the general platform of the American Democratic Party - something in the concept of the American or Israeli left that you do not agree with?

  5. Michael Rothschild
    I skimmed the article and didn't see everything
    But by and large there are caveats.
    Separation into different ethnic groups is not a good separation.
    A good separation is to separate according to place of residence and socioeconomic status.
    African Americans who live in poor inner cities are more likely to die from guns than established African Americans who live in the suburbs (probably) and are also more likely to be vulnerable to disease and drugs because they are more common, and more exposed to crime.
    Their life expectancy should be checked separately and compare the effect of weapons on their life (
    That is, how many lives on average would have happened if they had not been shot)
    This should be done separately for all types of groups in the United States and only then for the platform.
    Note - Violent damage from a pipe in the head is not considered. Only from firearms - and if you want to make it worse - only from weapons obtained legally because the issue is usually control over the sale of weapons in stores and not control over weapons that have already been sold and then maybe stolen or sold illegally again.

  6. another one
    There are issues that my father is far from the Democrats, religion for example...

  7. Miracles are not only related to the discussion here.
    I always see my father repeating concepts and propaganda that suit the American left - such as the opinion on weapons. His economic concept, his environmental concept, etc...

  8. Every country I know exists because of guns.
    Human society exists because of violence or the promise of violence.
    This is reality.
    The question being asked is who of the civilian population should have a weapon
    In the United States it's not just a matter of self-defense from criminals-
    If you ask a libertarian there, he will explain to you that for him, the one who needs to worry equally is his government -
    That if one day you decide to do something - then admit that he and his family and community members are armed.
    For them it symbolizes the ultimate freedom.
    In addition to the fact that in many places in the United States there are people who live in relative isolation and there it is really unlikely to expect the police to protect them.

    Spring. I have a question - is there an opinion of the Democratic Party in the United States or of the left in Israel or of the left in the world that you do not agree with?
    Do you have a single "right-wing" opinion on medicine?
    In my opinion, such conformism to the opinion of one group is an indication that you need to rethink your opinions. = because maybe they are not really your opinions.

  9. 1) Regarding the calculations:
    Obviously, there is no mathematical issue here. It's only in the guise of mathematics, but it's nonsense in tomato juice!
    It is not fundamentally different from using the disguise of statistics to highlight the average instead of highlighting the median!
    2) The weapon has never in history solved any problem.
    The crime problem is not related to the gun problem.
    The crime problem is first and foremost a social problem.
    If a society goes by in silence about crimes then the crimes keep increasing.

  10. b and another one
    In calculations with large discounts, you can reach any result you want. I hope it is clear to you that gun laws do not have much effect on those who do not follow the laws. If the second law is repealed, it is difficult for me to see a serious change in the world of crime, and the number of murders there will not necessarily decrease (maybe even increase).

    The problem that bothers most people is all kinds of normal people that the easy access to weapons - maybe - affects them going on killing sprees.

    The problem in my opinion is not the second amendment. This correction between 220 years. The problem, again in my opinion, is related to what Alvin Toffler called "future shock". The world is moving too fast, and there is competition in every subject, including for example how many movies will be violent. Many people find it difficult to find their place in the world and find refuge in acts of violence.

    Changing the constitution will not solve the problem and may even force it (the bad will always have weapons, the law will only affect the good).

    I'm not at all sure that the problem is solvable - if one in a million is born a psychopath, then 3 such are born in the USA every year....

  11. another one:
    Definetly agree !
    All these calculations are very problematic and are not mathematical at all even though on the surface it seems as if the calculation is mathematical.

  12. Abby - this may surprise you but there are many experts who let their political views direct their research-
    In a confrontation, this is called an inadvertent reference to authority.
    B. To show the effect of reducing the life expectancy of the Second Amendment to the Constitution in the United States - one has to take the life expectancy calculation once if neglecting the deaths caused by weapons in hands that would not have held them without the Second Amendment - compared to the calculation that does include them.
    This is how you can see the difference.
    Considering the fact that most of the deaths are in difficult neighborhoods for poor people who can be exploited also due to lack of access to good medicine and in many cases drugs - I would say that 50 years is generous.
    The fact that a gang member was shot to death at the age of 25 does not mean that on average he would have lived to the age of 80 without that shot - right? Good chance he'll die from drugs or other readily available cold weapons.

  13. In the above calculation there were 2 assumptions.
    1) The lifespan is 80 years.
    It is not clear if the calculation of the lifespan was done without the use of a weapon.
    It seems to me that the expectancy was calculated in the current situation, that is, when a weapon is used.
    It is possible that under conditions where weapons are not used, the lifespan was actually 100 years.
    2) The age of the victims is 30 years.
    It seems to me that the average age is actually 20 years.

    If we assume:
    1) Duration of 100 years.
    2) The age of the injury is 20 years.

    We will get different percentages. (roughly twice the previous calculation).

    But there are other questions such as:
    1) Is the damage to life expectancy calculated only when someone is killed?
    What happens if someone is injured? His life is probably getting shorter. Is this taken into account?
    Considering that the number of injured is ten times the number of dead. The injured should also be taken into account.
    2) Is the injury only a result of killing or wounding? Are there no additional effects to using the weapon.
    For example, is the life expectancy of people who are under stress due to the use of weapons shortened?

    I assume that if we do not neglect and consider the total effects we will get around one percent shortening of life expectancy.
    Is it a lot or a little?

  14. For a change to the idolatry of the public there is a (relatively) simple and ethical solution, those who give up conventional treatment and turn to alternative treatment give up the insurance right to finance the damages as a result of the transition.

    Once people start paying for their nonsense there is a chance they will change their minds, and if not then at least they won't be a burden on others.

  15. correction:

    Need to divide by 6.
    Life expectancy is shortened by about a sixth of a percent.

    And again:

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

  16. 10000 people times 50 years shortened from their lives equals 500000 years shortened in one year.
    We will divide by the number of the population which is 300 million and we will get the abbreviation per capita per year.

    The ratio is half a million divided by three hundred million. It's like half divided by three hundred. And that is the sixth percent.
    A percentage of a year is 3.65 days.

    In eighty years, 292 days are shortened.
    And it's almost 10 months.

    That means that each person on average has 10 months shortened from his life.

    80 years of life is 960 months.

    10 months is about 1% of 960 months.

    That is, life expectancy is shortened by approximately one percent.

  17. to an atheist

    When you multiply people by life years, the result is life years, not people... 10000 people * 80 years = 800000 life years

  18. Abby, you are wrong about the effect of guns on life expectancy in the US. I am in favor of restricting gun ownership in the US, but the effect on life expectancy is marginal.
    Every year in the USA 10000 people are killed as a result of weapons. If we multiply by 80, which is the life expectancy in Western countries, we will reach 800000 deaths. years, we will divide these years by 50 million people in the US and the result is that each person on average only loses 30 years.
    All this calculation is made on the assumption that in other western countries there are no deaths from weapons at all, which of course is not true and therefore the effect on life expectancy is even lower.

  19. What is an episode of the Nice Butterfly show that deals with medicine? You both sound like Eric and Benz

  20. Whoever thinks that sophisticated computers can replace the personal relationship between teacher and student is wrong.

    Whoever thinks similar things about the relationship between the doctor and the patient is wrong.
    There is no substitute for sympathetic personal treatment from the doctor.

    And we lost that.
    And this must be improved.
    And the sooner the better.

  21. There is no point in sophisticated machines or expensive drugs if the doctor is not attentive to the patient!

  22. ב
    If it has a negative effect then shouldn't you give up? I mean that the net effect is negative - a decrease in the level of medical service.

    The problem, in my opinion, is looking at the patients as customers, and also at students as customers. Imagine that we would do a questionnaire to the tax authority. Do you think people will say "let's raise the taxes".... Do you think that students, or their parents (the Ministry of Education sees parents as customers - not students) know what the best education is for them? In health, we (you and I) probably don't understand. Do you think you are able to decide which medicines to put in the basket and which to take out? Do you know if another MRI or more operating rooms is better? Which flu vaccine should I have? How much blood is needed in the blood bank?

    It is similar to the difference between a democracy and a republic (Israel is a republic of course). In a democracy, everything is determined by referendums. In the republic there is an elected body that we (in theory) authorize to decide for us.

  23. It is not clear why this could have a negative effect.
    But in any case, even if it has a negative effect, you still cannot give it up.

    Education in Israel has deteriorated.
    But what about the satisfaction questionnaire?
    Do you think the students were satisfied with the bad teachers?
    It is possible. But this is no reason not to complete the questionnaire.

    If the claim was that every time they carried out a satisfaction questionnaire the result was a deterioration, then it would be worth checking the claim.
    In a one-off case that happened in the education system, it is possible that there is nothing to do with the questionnaire, and it is possible that there is a connection to the questionnaire, but in any case, it does not seem to me that the questionnaire is the cause of the deterioration.

  24. ב
    The investment is zero - I agree with you. I'm afraid (but not sure) that it could have a negative effect. The Ministry of Education did something similar and education in Israel has deteriorated ever since, and this is one of the main reasons for this.

  25. The investment in measuring the quality of the service is zero and it will yield far-reaching results.

  26. ב

    First of all, a good idea - especially the source of the money...

    But... the problem is at the level of individual service? I really don't think this is the main problem and I wouldn't put any effort into it - although a good attitude, especially when you're not at your best, definitely contributes.

    But think that anyone who has a dear person to whom he is resolved will not be enthusiastic about the service he received - and probably most of us understand medicine. Imagine if hospitals would invest in service instead of the quality of medicine? After all, you want to measure them on the service...

  27. I suggest that every customer of medicine in Israel should have the opportunity to express an opinion on the service he received. And I suggest that the managements of the health insurance funds and the hospitals really consider the opinion questionnaire.

    How to finance it?
    At the expense of the ice cream.

  28. ב
    How much do you know about this? I received excellent care when I needed it, and so did all my family members. The hospitals are crowded and not fun there. But to say that medicine in Israel is bad??

    I already asked you once - what do you propose? Apart from defaming and hurting - what do you propose to change? And where do you propose to finance it?

  29. Because of the convictions of the American medical system and probably also because of the proliferation of weapons - two blows inflicted on us by the Republican Party, the life expectancy in the US is several years lower than in Israel. Chemotherapy treatment will not be denied here because a person has no money. Those who have more money can get more tests, maybe even faster and choose the surgeon, but that is not the problem, the situation of neglect due to the cost of the treatments does not exist like in the US

  30. ב
    Are you claiming that if politics improves then medicine will improve???

    You claim that medicine is bad for the poor. Even the poorest poor in Israel is much better than a low class in the USA for example. Not to mention other countries. It is clear that money helps - it also helps in health, education and the legal system. I agree with you it is wrong.

    But - providing complete equality is also problematic. Why does a person who works hard and raises a small family according to his ability - why should he finance lazy people who do not contribute to society and raise families far beyond their abilities??

    Regarding the average salary. You are just right……………..

  31. If politics wasn't terrible, apparently medicine wouldn't be considered good either.

    Medicine in Israel is excellent, but it is only excellent for the rich.

    It's kind of like the common error of average salary:
    The average salary in Israel is say X shekels per month.
    Does this say something about the level of salaries in Israel?

    The vast majority of employees earn minimum wage.

    The more appropriate index to describe the salary is the median index and not the average index.

    But for some reason they constantly bother to emphasize the average and ignore the median.

    A hundred people who each earn a thousand shekels less than the average are balanced by one person who earns 100000 shekels above the average.
    If the average is NIS 8000 a month, then there are a hundred people who earn NIS 7000 compared to one who earns NIS 108000.
    That's about the bill.
    That is, the majority of the population is in a lot of trouble, but the average actually seems quite fine because there are a few who celebrate at the expense of the general public.

  32. A few years ago I realized that in terms of the ratio of private to public medicine (in the sense of money) the State of Israel is in third place in terms of capitalism - after the United States and South Korea.
    Our medical system is very far from perfect and has many problems -
    But more private systems are not necessarily more capitalist because of the Shulton capital relations between insurance companies and governments - the situation in the United States before or after Obamacare was very bad for a large part of the population because of the somewhat crooked structure of the health care system there.
    Those who did receive full treatment probably received good treatment.

  33. ב
    Why is this question being asked? I assume you are asking because of the state of the medical establishment in Israel. What do you propose to do about the situation in Israel? Medicine in Israel is considered the best in the world. Politics in Israel is terrible.

    What do you suggest??

  34. ב
    Let's leave the particular case you mentioned. Do you have a suggestion to fix the situation? As far as I know, medicine in capitalist countries is much better than in socialist countries.

  35. "All this does not mean that the scientific method of modern medicine is problematic - but that the public medical system is not perfect."

    That's exactly the point.

    There is no problem with the scientific medical method.

    There is a serious problem with the medical system.

  36. ב
    There is a difference between the modern scientific medical method
    and the quality of the doctors you can rely on.
    In general, doctors have heard this part about the flu probably dozens of times and it doesn't impress them
    They want to finish as many patients as possible in as little time as possible-
    They can give you some pointers - they can give you antibiotics, which is probably good for you personally in case it would help, but in general bad for the whole population in the big picture
    And they can tell you it's the flu and send you home.

    Medical errors are the number six cause of death in the western world.
    They thought it was the flu and it was actually bacterial pneumonia - and someone dies - it happens.
    All this does not mean that the scientific method of modern medicine is problematic - but that the public medical system is not perfect.

  37. What did I expect?

    I expected a doctor to take it seriously.
    When a patient reports to the doctor that he has never suffered from the flu, the doctor should first consider the patient's words.

    What to do and how to act after hearing the patient's complaints - this is already a professional matter.
    But a situation where the doctor does not listen to the patient at all is extremely serious.

    Right:
    I could see a private doctor.
    But it would have cost me a fortune in addition to my monthly payment to the health fund.

    other than that:
    As I have already said:
    This is not the only case. And not the case that made me lose faith.
    This is just one example of many.

    It is the accumulation of many such and similar examples that causes a loss of trust in the medical system.

    The medical system is not the doctor.
    The medical system is not medicine.
    Within the medical system comes the financial factor.
    As long as the financial factor is relatively marginal it is not so bad.
    but .
    When the financial factor becomes the most significant factor in the quality of the medical service.
    We're in trouble.

  38. ב
    A doctor determined that you have the flu. Did you check with another doctor who gave a different diagnosis?

    Asaf
    I completely agree with you. A doctor who sends you to a homeopathic doctor is clearly wrong. He is obliged to inform you of the effectiveness of the treatment of the law.

  39. I personally used to have full faith in the medical system.

    Unfortunately over time I simply lost faith.

    There are too many things that are really, really wrong.

    I will give one example, but it is not because of one example that people lose faith, there are many more examples.

    The example:

    When I was at school I was jealous of the students who got the flu.
    I never really got the flu, at most I got a fever for a few hours and it passed.
    I never got a day off from school because of the flu.
    I envied the others who got two weeks off because they got the flu.

    and then:

    One day I got a very high fever.
    With great difficulty I walked to the nearest hospital (less than five hundred meters) to my place of residence.
    On the way I felt several times that I was going to pass out!

    Well:

    Then the doctor without any serious consideration decided that what I have is the flu.

    All the claims that the flu never affected me didn't help me.
    She simply refused to continue treating me.
    She sent me home with a diagnosis of the flu.

  40. Nissim, you didn't understand, I don't blame the public. How can a person who has not studied medicine for 7 years dare to tell a specialist doctor that homeopathy is nonsense and the same doctor sends him for such treatment.
    I understand that the health insurance funds are looking for ways to make money and that's why they established the centers of complementary medicine, but if their doctors send patients there even though they don't believe in the treatment, it's fraud in the criminal field, because the state doesn't see it as fraud, so-and-so's only choice is to conclude that the treatments help.

  41. Asaf
    As Shalom Hanoch said - "The public is stupid and therefore the public pays". You live in a country that has a population that does not serve in the army because of religion. what do you expect

  42. When the HMOs establish complementary medicine centers and the HMO doctors send them for treatments, what is the message to the public?

  43. SAFKAN
    What I'm saying is that for all that the medical system is bad
    You still have to take into account that at least some of the claims against also have an agenda.
    Like those who oppose the most routine vaccines because they believe they cause autism (without any proof as far as I know)
    And the Scientologists who promote a big campaign against psychiatric drugs.
    There are many types of anti-drug and anti-medical movements pushing their agenda in the public.
    The alternative medicine industries also have an interest in convincing you that you are being pushed a lot of unnecessary drugs.
    Does this mean that pharmaceutical companies do not promote research to push their drugs? - Of course not - you have to check everything for yourself.
    By and large, we are entering an era of self-responsibility - it would be good if they taught a little about the medical method in school - because people have to make up their own minds knowing that many parties are trying to sell them something.

  44. ב
    You say hard things. This young girl who some jerk spilled acid on her face is under the care of the medical system. Are you suggesting that her family take her out of the hospital and give her Bach flowers?

    People say horrible things to advance a political agenda. Don't be among them.

  45. Small correction:

    Do not express disbelief in medicine.

    But they definitely express distrust in the medical system.

  46. my father

    In principle, I do not read the words of miracles, I am not interested in what he said.

    If I'm not mistaken, your comment here concerns another article, the one that talks about an anomalous supernova. I directed detailed questions and comments there to Zvi.

  47. Another one and Eric.

    Can't respond to you right now. Maybe I'll answer you in the next few days, maybe not.
    ==================

    another one.
    ======

    I will now mention only the tip of the fork. We are in a very abnormal situation in which we are slathered with drugs above and beyond what is desirable, on the other hand preventive medicine is pushed to the corner (all mainly for economic reasons).

    As for idol medicine, nowhere did I suggest it.

    As for the Scientologists. It is a fringe cult that has no real influence on the public discourse, pharmaceutical companies inflated its role and influence to shut up. This propaganda probably affected you too. Most of the criticism is from people who have no connection to Scientologists.

    Furthermore, the vast majority of medical research is funded by pharmaceutical companies, this creates a great distortion that makes it very difficult to understand what the real situation is.

    Eric.
    ===

    The addictive process to Ritalin is investigated by the American Drug Authority, it is a reliable objective body in my estimation.
    Unfortunately I did not save the links. The problem is, most drug research is funded by pharmaceutical companies. Because of this, the studies of the pharmaceutical companies that flood the literature, ignore (due to the flooding) the few studies that indicate the harms of the drugs.

    In general: after several years of using Ritalin in a minimal and controlled regular format - the user becomes addicted to Ritalin. If the dose is increased, the speed of addiction is increased. At the same time, the effect of the dose of Ritalin decreases within a few years, after several years of using Ritalin the benefit of the original dose of Ritalin is canceled (which requires increasing the dose to achieve a renewed effect). Doctors call addiction "dependency" (it's just a semantic difference), doctors call TOLERANCE for the decrease in Ritalin's effect.

    For both of you
    ======

    The method of flooding the establishment with articles praising the drugs (including the use of flattery towards doctors directly) is an ugly thing that unfortunately works. This is a propaganda technique that was very successful in the matter of tobacco damages. For decades, medical research on tobacco was mainly funded by tobacco companies. The flood of false studies would have led to an assessment in the medical establishment that the harms of tobacco are not so serious and that it is not addictive at all. It was only at a very late stage (tens of years too late) that it was impossible to hide the harms of tobacco and the fact that nicotine is an addictive drug.

  48. Skeptic, Nissim is right. There is no meaning in looking any other way than ignoring the time it takes for light to reach that object. Otherwise you are comparing apples with oranges.

  49. Miracles

    Stop messing with my brain.

    I have told you more than once that I completely do not value your opinion and am not interested in discussing any matter with you. You're probably hard of hearing if you haven't figured it out by now.

    That's why I try as much as possible not to read anything you say.

  50. SAFKAN
    You pull from the hip, as usual. You claim, very brazenly, "therefore most studies are biased or unreliable." I would love to hear a substantiation for this claim, or if you back off from it.

    "People are not as stupid as the medical establishment thinks" - again, source please, or apology. I was hurt by this sentence.

    Ritalin is an excellent drug. It may be that it is divided too easily, perhaps. But I know people who function in society only thanks to this drug. This is of course not proof, but I know of no cases to the contrary, where Ritalin caused damage. I agree that excessive use of any drug is not healthy.

  51. do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work"
    ? "
    medicine
    strong..

  52. It is necessary to emphasize and explain that the concept of alternative medicine is wrong and misleading. There is no connection between those plants, medicinal treatments and rituals of any kind with medicine.
    For some reason, the authorities, such as the ministries of health, commerce, consumer protection, etc., do not act against those misleading and false publications, against that fraud and fraud.

    Those authorities have the knowledge, the tools, the authority and, above all, the responsibility to act.

  53. Bouncer
    Homeopathy is indeed a type of alternative medicine
    The definition I know of alternative medicine is medicine that is not recognized as medicine by science.
    Therefore, when there is a medical method that works according to the scientific method, then it is no longer alternative medicine.

  54. Mark:
    Your claim against my father is logic incarnate.
    If we continue with the same logic, we can also claim that Hawking, who is unable to move because of his illness, is the last one who should talk about the movement of the galaxies.

  55. The plant on which it is written does not cure malaria, unfortunately to this day there is no cure for malaria,
    There is a treatment for the symptoms and this is done by the plant in question,
    There are also substances that are supposed to prevent adhesion, no one is 100% reliable
    For the body of the article, do not confuse homeopathy with alternative medicine,
    Alternative medicine gives the patient the option to choose different methods of
    Treatment, some of which benefit the general feeling even if they do not cure the disease,
    Homeopathy is simply lying charlatanism that came to take advantage of fools
    And since the number of fools in our environment is increasing, there is success for anyone who depends on exploiting them,
    So are all the amulets and voodoo methods that are common in our country,
    It has already been said that fools do not disappear but only multiply.

  56. There are many medicines that were developed by maximizing the effectiveness of natural plants - they are therefore more effective than the plants from which they were developed.

    SAFKAN
    You will agree with him that despite the imperfection of the many problems that exist in the world of conventional medicine
    This is still not a reason to turn to idol medicine, right?

    By the way, on the subject of Ritalin, one should be careful - it is true that attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is probably overdiagnosed
    But you have to remember that one of the biggest categories of all psychiatric drugs and Ritalin in particular is of course the Church of Scientology from which science is real and beyond.
    We need to be even more careful in this area and differentiate between a legitimate scientific opinion and a connection theory provided by that alien cult.

  57. As for the medicinal plant for malaria, there are many medicines derived from plants, but this does not mean that the opposite is also true. That is, only very few of the plants really do what is attributed to them, and this knowledge is also mainly from the experience of people in the field from the time before modern medicine.
    But medicine, or more correctly, medicine, took a step forward in that it separated the active substance from the other parts of the plant (which may be toxic) and made it possible to synthesize it, thus controlling its concentration and the power of its effect and greatly reducing its production.
    But of course there are millions of medicinal plants that do not heal and only serve as a way for people to make money on them at the expense of others' distress
    And as for diabetes, I inject Victoza and insulin. I do not know that these are herbal medicines.

  58. (An extreme sect, even for the ultra-Orthodox community that calls, among other things, for women to cover themselves from head to toe).

    Not that it's very important to me, but a comma is missing here, otherwise it's as if the entire ultra-Orthodox community is calling for women... etc.

  59. It is clear that even if among the medicinal plants you can find a few that do the action expected of them - typo and you forget the placibo effect

  60. My father, you are diabetic.
    You are the last one to preach about health and lifestyle.

    You also write "among the medicinal plants you can find a few that do the action expected of them (and these are also rare)"
    The above sentence is simply not true. Clinically there are thousands of double-blind studies on hundreds of plants and vitamins that show clear success.
    Only vitamin D alone (a double-blind study at the Massachusetts Hospital in Mongolia) showed that if you have a normative dose of vitamin D in your blood in the winter, the chance of getting sick decreases by over 50 percent and significantly shortens sick days.
    The joke of fate on the main page Dr. Nachmani publishes an article about a plant that cures malaria.

  61. The lack of training of the public in research and in the medical establishment honestly benefited the medical establishment.

    Most medical research is funded by pharmaceutical companies, therefore most research is biased or unreliable.

    People are not as stupid as the medical establishment thinks. Inconsistencies between the ardent recommendations of the medical establishment and the real results in the field (which are passed by word of mouth) cause people to question the recommendations of the medical establishment.

    As an example I will bring the systematic brainwashing that is done in YNET regarding the use of Ritalin. Anyone who is interested in Ritalin outside of the advertising of the medical establishment knows that it is a drug that can quite easily turn its users into drug addicts who are dependent on this drug for life. The medical establishment pretends that this is not an addictive drug, but that it is only a safe medicine. The drug Ritalin may have cumulative damages, as with any narcotic. No studies are published on these damages, because the pharmaceutical companies and other stakeholders are not comfortable investigating it. It is clear that the incessant propaganda in YNET encourages the consumption of Ritalin above and beyond what is desirable, because this is drug trafficking disguised as "health care". The drug trade is known to be a popular trade because it brings a lot of money to the dealers (in this case to the manufacturers of Ritalin).

  62. And maybe it's also a kind of evolution.
    After all, if there is a recurring pattern, it is that everyone who relies on alternative medicine of some kind (Steve Jobs, Anat Gov and quite a few other people) in the end does not recover. His condition is bad.
    By any evolutionary law we simply get rid of the gullible and irrational.
    It may take more time and maybe a small extinction (which will probably break out due to resistance to vaccines) but in the end it's for the better.
    So we do have to try to convince and explain, but whoever insists, then have fun - keep complaining that modern medicine is corrupt and doesn't help, and don't forget to say hello to the other side.

  63. Abi, disbelief - period (period).
    Especially in light of the revelation of the undisputed commercial relationship: the health funds and the pharmaceutical companies.
    And when this factor is discovered in the equation, there is reason to doubt the interest of "conventional medicine".

    At least Super Pharm doesn't hide this from us. The god of money is greater than anything else, even the desire to heal and save lives.

    is not it?

  64. Superpharm is interested in selling and making a profit, it doesn't matter what the truth is, if the customers demand it, they will get it.
    It is clear that the idol drug industry is an extremely profitable industry, and apparently science and medicine do not sufficiently explain themselves.
    On the other hand, there is no problem for those who have a cold to eat chicken soup or any other traditional medicine.
    A cancer patient can also decide that he does not want to be treated but to die quickly, but why pay millions for false medicines?

    And perhaps we will end with the words of Job (XNUMX:XNUMX)
    "But you are sick, false healers, God bless you all"

  65. The usual rant here against the alternatives doesn't really make an impression anymore. Kind of a standard knee jerk reaction.

    After all, people said they were trying a combined treatment - Conv and Alter. So what's the fuss about?
    And beyond that, these are diseases that traditional medicine has nothing to offer - either only relief of symptoms, or general poisoning with chemotherapy, and as someone wrote here - to the point of not wanting to live.
    How can you even judge people in such a situation?

    It's always made from a few anecdotes of charlatans or exceptional parents in distress situations - what a complete demonization of everything that is not conventional medicine.
    Grow up.

  66. There is here, in the article, a mixing of several topics as well as a lack of a person's feelings.

    Sometimes, people despair of chemotherapy treatments because they are cruel treatments and not easy (to say the least) and also don't always help...
    Sometimes the patient after years of treatment - no longer capable - it is better for him to die allows life to continue with these treatments (because these are not really lives)...
    So in these cases, they turn to alternative medicine - real medicine simply has nothing more to offer, so at least help the soul - and believe it or not - helping the soul does help the immune system... and that's exactly what alternative medicine does..

  67. Hello my father,

    As someone who has just recovered from the flu and is still at home on sick leave, I will try to explain things a little.

    Influenza is a viral disease and there is no cure for it. The existing drugs are able at most to relieve the symptoms and not beyond.

    This is the reason why I took paracetamol to reduce fever, Nocidex to dry internal and external runny nose, as well as expectorant syrup.

    At the same time, and since the benefit of these drugs is not very high, I also used grandmother's drugs that made me feel better.

    I ate hot chicken soup which contributed fluids, salts and disinfected the throat a little. I drank hot tea which for some reason helped to start the process of sweating and lowering the fever and I used a damp handkerchief on the forehead which also contributed to reducing the fever.

    The conventional drugs helped and the grandmother's drugs helped. At least that's how I felt. If I felt differently - I wouldn't approach them (I don't try cupping for example...).

    I assume that most of those who answered the survey do similar things for themselves and their children.

    Medicine does not always have the ability to provide an answer and traditional medicines that have been used for many years have not necessarily been studied for their possible effect on disease symptoms. The reason for this is simple - chicken soup is not "commercial" and will not enrich any seller beyond the price of the chicken and the vegetables that are added to it...

    In my opinion, there is a difference between chicken soup and homeopathy that only contains water and a placebo effect. And whoever is sick with a disease for which there is a medicine - let him take it and get well.

    I don't remember who the company was that claimed to strengthen the immune system through nutritional supplements and had to remove the advertisement - but I remember the case itself.

    It is clear to me that the manufacturers of the multitude of drugs are interested in making money and it is clear to me that the manufacturers of conventional drugs produce them after years of research, which in most cases outweighs the side effects and confirms that their effectiveness outweighs the risk inherent in them. In my opinion, with other "natural" or homeopathic medicines - this is not the case and there is no established research conducted according to the requirements of the Helsinki Committee on the subject.

    I would not be tempted to try miracle stickers and other inventions that have not been tried, tested and proven to be effective and safe. And I will definitely recommend to those who can get vaccinated when they can...

    And the main thing - to be healthy 🙂

  68. I also had a relative who got cancer and went to alternative medicine and only when it was too late did she turn to conventional treatment. I don't know if conventional medicine would have helped her or not, and I also don't know if being a follower of Breslav encouraged her to go to alternative medicine. What, I am sure that the chance with alternative medicine is usually not higher than cases of a person without treatment at all.
    The reason people are afraid to go to conventional treatment is not because medicine does not know how to explain itself, but because the treatments are extremely difficult and in many cases only prolong the suffering somewhat. People prefer to hang on to false hopes than to look reality in the eyes.

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