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A country haunted by demons XNUMX: restoring sanity to the system: the courage of Amsalem

You have to rub your eyes and believe: a rabbi, MK of Shas calls on ultra-Orthodox to study core studies and go to work and academia, and leave the yeshiva to the elites. * What is the continuation of the proverb: love the craft and hate the rabbinate?

Note: For those who are not interested, you are welcome to read about the wonders of the universe on this website, which marks the 13th article this week, and to skip this article, which is a critical article about the society we live in and whose impact on science is twofold: there are fewer people who are able to go to academia because of the omission It is 30 years since the ultra-Orthodox were paid for their studies, and there are more people who received anti-scientific indoctrination, therefore the importance of the core studies for the existence of science in Israel is great.

Greetings: Avi Blizovsky

* * *

Haim Amsalam from Wikipedia
Haim Amsalam from Wikipedia

"In Ben-Gurion's time, Israeli society agreed to the arrangement 'Torah is his art' for 400 Torah students. They did not imagine and did not dream that the dimensions would increase in such quantities and intensities, which do not have any proportion. We want doctors, architects, lawyers, economists, accountants, scientists, psychologists and media people, who will all be God-fearing and scholars. The discrimination against us will be resolved through integration into society, core studies, service in the army and going to work."

I did not say these things, although I have been saying and writing similar things for years, neither did secular politicians such as Nitzan Horowitz, nor did Yaron Yedan who heads the Or party that calls for a complete separation of religion and state. Saying this in an interview with Maariv no less than an ultra-Orthodox member of the Knesset - from the Shas movement, Haim Amsalem, who actually expresses opposition to the Havrach Law, and to the prevention of core studies in ultra-Orthodox schools, two hot topics among the ultra-Orthodox public, most of whose politicians simply think that we can continue to grow more here A few generations in which the state will take care of the learners financially but will abandon them to a curriculum that will not allow them to enter the labor market. You have to rub your eyes and not believe it. It is not even about the majority of religious Zionism.

Of course, as an ultra-Orthodox, he is not opposed to religious studies and even calls for funding them. But it also follows from this that those who do not intend to become such, their place is in a different study bench, a bench that combines Torah and general studies, which prepare them for the future, for one of the jobs that support their owners", "the speakers, the businessmen, the commentators, the writers, and the majority of ultra-Orthodox society, who raise the Torah mod and kollel in their throats, in practice They themselves have long since not been among the only learners, but they argue to preserve the whole as a model and a framework, perhaps out of social constraint, and a wrong way of thinking."

What is even more interesting is that Amsalem said these things not only at a press conference intended for the general media, but also on websites and in interviews for radio stations that appeal to the ultra-Orthodox public such as Radio Kol Chai and Lakar HaShabbat.

In an article recently published by Amsalam on the ultra-Orthodox website "Shabbat Square", he claimed that the entire phenomenon of kollelim was not at all acceptable in the Jews of Spain: "When the ultra-orthodox representatives speak highly of the importance of 'kollelim' to the people of Israel and to the Torah of Israel, it is very useful to know that in the countries of North Africa and in all districts The Spaniards, the framework called in our time 'Kollel Avrach' never existed!"

Unfortunately, it is clear that the ultra-orthodox members of the Knesset are far from representing their public, which is by nature much more moderate than the politicians, but in both of these sectors, there is a tendency to eliminate any moderate politician by targeted elimination or through the appointment of members of the Knesset by the businessmen without holding democratic elections. In such a situation, there is no chance of having anyone to talk to about a compromise. The zigzags of Shas in the political sphere that brought it to a state of balance (and the people of Israel to a state where the only thing it determines in the elections is who will sit with Shas in the government), turned out to be a mistake, and I hope that in Meretz they learned this lesson after the Rabin and Barak governments preferred Shas over secular parties such as Likud and Shinoi, and thus increased the price paid to it, something we suffer from to this day.

What is the law of the blessings we are talking about? Not long ago, the High Court of Justice ruled that granting the income guarantee to the elderly harms equality because it does not apply to those who study in institutions that are not religious institutions. The budget clause violates the obligation to distribute state support equally and therefore cannot continue to be included in its current form in the budget laws, starting with the 2011 budget law and onwards. MK Gafni and others decided to submit the bill, which will actually bypass the High Court decision. The bill for a subsistence scholarship for inclusive students seeks to "enshrine the right of inclusive students whose teachings are their art to receive a scholarship". According to the explanation of the proposal, which is signed by Knesset members from Torah Judaism, Shas and the National Union, its purpose is to establish a unique arrangement that will provide scholarships to yeshiva students - who have at least three children. Ostensibly the law is egalitarian and allows a similar scholarship to students who meet these conditions, but the media check showed that there are not more than 200 students throughout the State of Israel who meet these conditions.

From the data presented in the bill, it appears that the total budget allocated by the state in the 2010 budget to support students is 450 million new shekels, while the budget section for income assurance for the elderly was 121 million new shekels. The proponents write that "the state sees great importance in encouraging Torah study, and therefore it is proposed to allow a modest living stipend for those who choose to follow this path."

"The ultra-Orthodox public is separating from the people"

It is clear that after this show of courage, the ultra-orthodox sector claims that he is evil and that he should be boycotted.
Eric Bender, Ma'ariv reporter in the Knesset Writing on his NRG blog Because from their point of view (of the ultra-Orthodox, AB) Rabbi Amsalem is seen as someone who washes the dirty laundry outside, someone who catches them messing up with their pants down, almost a whistleblower and a messenger who tells the whole world how things are going in ultra-Orthodox rooms and gives ammunition to anyone who feels and believes that the ultra-orthodox public is going and disconnects from the state and becomes a burden on its shoulders.

On the website "Hadari Haredim" it was published that two rabbis who are considered patrons of MK Amsalem, including Baba Baruch, said of him that "he is evil, and one should stay away from him". Following the words of MK Rabbi Haim Amsalem of Shas, which caused a stir, a member of the Council of Torah Sages, Rabbi Moshe Maya, says in an interview for the main edition of "Kol Brama" with Avi Mimran: "To begin with, to say that the main thing is the profession and being a doctor, there is no This is a sign of the Torah, the man cannot be discussed, but he should be sent for observation, in my opinion his words are surprising."

Amsalem put before the ultra-orthodox businessmen a mirror in which they see how they look in the eyes of the general public who are fed up with the fact that a public that grows and grows and lives at its own expense.

I will also add that this public not only lives at our expense but also tells us how to live in terms of our lifestyle even in secular areas (have you ever seen anyone learning about evolution in public schools?), and that the situation only gets worse demographically when entire neighborhoods are stormed by the changing elements You are typical. You have to be blind not to see all of this and allow the Havrach law and the abolition of the core studies to continue as if nothing had happened.

Recently I heard the pet doss of the Israeli media, Kobi Arieli, speak out and say that it is possible to disagree with the ultra-Orthodox's demand to receive funding for their studies without working, but it should be understood that this is an ideological dispute. Well, tomorrow I start a new ideology according to which I must make loud noises between 2 and 4 in the morning and wake everyone up. You must not punish me and you must not argue with me - this is ideology.

In the chapters of Avot, Abatalion is quoted as saying:Love the job and hate the rabbinate and don't know the authority"As you know, the first two parts of the trial were directed last month against the ultra-orthodox members of the Knesset who are demanding in the Habrach law and the prevention of core studies, that they know that they are going against the sources, but what about the third part of the trial, perhaps it can also be interpreted as "don't interfere with the authority"? Or in other words, don't let them introduce you to the authorities, that is, don't take money from them either...

On the same topic on the science website:

60 תגובות

  1. There is no doubt in the words and actions of Rabbi Amsalem, if Netanyahu acts wisely, he will appoint him as Deputy Minister of Education in charge of ultra-orthodox education, and preferably one hour before

  2. If we're talking about lawsuits, maybe we'll file a counterclaim against the leaders of the ultra-Orthodox sector in Israel and around the world, for the extortions, frauds, incitement against Israel and Zionism, the tax losses, the damage to life and property due to religious aggression, the image damage to Jews and Israel due to ultra-Orthodox thieves from the USA and much more... 60 A year of hatred of Israel and progress... AA, you have been warned, the lawsuit could reach hundreds of billions of dollars. The lawsuit will be filed by the most senior attorneys (somewhat stupid sentence, isn't it?)

  3. Fascinating discussion. Father please don't censor anything.
    The warm air in the virtual bubble of ultra-Orthodox existence
    Comes out with a sharp whistle as Amsalam pierces it from the inside
    with a sharp pin. The ultra-Orthodox world is teetering on the edge
    The almost absolute poverty.
    In my opinion, the solution is to create an opportunity for them
    Livelihood from a thin trickle will increase the number of workers
    into a critical mass of ultra-Orthodox workers.
    They have no choice.

    Instead of talking only about the problem I would be happy to hear
    solution ideas.
    For example, in my opinion, the nursing jobs that are performed
    Foreign workers are very suitable for the ultra-Orthodox.

    Those with analytical abilities can undergo training
    for software quality checks.

    I was in Bnei Brak to check the possibility of working
    With a software company that only employs ultra-Orthodox women
    And I was very impressed.

    What more?

  4. Although I am not a lawyer, a brief look at Israel's law book reveals that AA and Domin can sleep peacefully. Article 192 states that:
    "Whoever threatens a person in any way with unlawful harm to his body, his freedom, his property, his good name or his livelihood or that of another person, with the intention of scaring the person or teasing him, shall be punished by imprisonment for three years."
    Since the threat of legal action is by its very nature done legally, it cannot be complained about.

    Sending a response to a website announcing that a certain group intends to sue the website (and its operators) certainly does not constitute harassment according to the threatening harassment law. On the contrary, AA can claim that he is so sure of his victory that he wanted to give my father time to evaluate before filing the lawsuit (although it is much more likely to assume that this is an idle threat).

    Regarding the lawsuit itself against the site itself, I think it would be a big mistake of the ultra-Orthodox world. A poignant legal discussion on the question of the participation of the ultra-Orthodox world in the workforce, its contribution to national security, and more will create negative publicity for the ultra-Orthodox community, at a time when the secular public is beginning to tire of the matter. Even if the ultra-Orthodox are successful in their claim (which I personally find hard to believe) then this victory will be a Pyrrhic victory.

  5. My father, what is certain is that the Messiah surely works hard to make a living, after all he has a white donkey attached to him

  6. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef took out some beautiful Halachic rulings from under his hand. Since then, 40-50 years have passed and his last brilliance was "Get out of the way". His old age puts his youth to shame. He passed.

    His decline began, when he returned Rabbi Peretz to Ra'anana because it warned of the corruption that was spreading like wildfire. Since then, a considerable number of emissaries from Ovadia have passed through the gates of Maasiah.

    Amsalem is following in the footsteps of Peretz (without the mezuzos of the Bonim disaster, I hope), but the Rabbi Ovadia who stands in front of him is no longer the Rabbi Ovadia who stood in front of Peretz.

    Soon the era of conversion will end and we will all breathe a sigh of relief. You can start right now.

  7. Dror, your feeling is wrong. The difference and the isolation don't bother me. The Buddhists also think differently than me and dress differently than me. What disturbs is that this is accompanied by a feeling of superiority as if they are pure and superior people and we are impure and inferior, while we provide for them and take care of them, and it is so not enough for them that they want more and forge identity cards.
    As I have already explained, the secular public hardly reacts to the daily blows inflicted on it by ultra-Orthodox ministers and/or rabbis who enthuse the masses for their needs. He has no time for protests and hatred. He is busy at work. . What do they think they will land a decree every day and the public will accept it with peace of mind? Or any criticism is one criticism too many.
    I believe that after three generations of laziness the distortion should be corrected as soon as possible. Instead, I hear and read about another halachic ruling that calls not to work, and about Rabbi Ovadia calling a traitor to the MK of Shas who, in general, wanted the ultra-Orthodox to go to work. At this rate of one worker per month, we will reach in the year 2300 that all the ultra-Orthodox will work.
    The empirical view is that only when few work. We will see who will come first, the integration of the ultra-Orthodox in the labor market or the Messiah.

  8. jubilee:

    As you said - lawyers can claim all kinds of things and therefore even a person who has done nothing wrong can be threatened - what's more, wasting time is damage in itself.
    Besides - it is clear that the intent was a threat intended to make my father stop reporting the reality as it is.
    Between us - I'm pretty sure there is no such procedure - that is, they don't even think of suing because they know themselves that they have no grounds - which further emphasizes the intent of the threat in the words.

  9. Lawyers can argue many things. My father-in-law, A.H., who was a district judge in Jerusalem, once told me about a lawyer who cited the Law of Combined Vessels and claimed that irrigation water flows up the mountain.

    And regarding the subject of our discussion: he simply informs us that he is going to request the arbitration of the most legitimate body to rule between his public and our public. I saw no threat in his words. He did not incite anyone and did not threaten to harm body or mind. I didn't even see a terrible pulsa with him. If I were in Avi Blizovsky's shoes and AA had informed me that he was going to court to ask that he be awarded compensation from me, I would not see myself as threatened because it is clear to me that I have done nothing wrong.

  10. I have the feeling that the secular public is not interested in the existence of an ultra-orthodox public. It's quite horrifying to him this difference and isolation. I have the feeling that the problems that do exist in the ultra-orthodox public are inflated beyond their true dimensions, since the media is secular in nature and reflects the anxieties of the secular public.

    I think the ultra-orthodox public is changing. It's happening slowly and the secular attitude in recent years seems to me like someone with a whip whipping this public saying: "Faster! faster! Parasites! Tired of you! The olive broke!"

    One should be careful not to form an opinion based on stereotypes and a feeling of anger or anxiety of one kind or another. Especially on a site like this I would expect some real empirical look after what is really happening on the ground. Anyway thanks for the links.

  11. jubilee:
    Sometimes the person who dedicates the Saa is actually censored here.
    These companies are indeed getting close to that.

    By the way, have you considered that when A sues B for a threatening letter he sent him, B's lawyer can use a variation on your claim and tell A that he was not threatened because he could have torn up the letter and filed it in the trash?

  12. Sometimes I say "I'd love to be fooled". This time I am equal.

    The scientist who sanctifies freedom of speech and does not censor does well, but irrelevant comments that are a nuisance and a waste of the readers' time deserve to be thrown in the trash and not come here. Maybe it's worth backing them up for testimony in court, if the need arises, but I (and unfortunately I'm not qualified to speak for the majority of readers, although I'm almost sure you have the same opinion) do not find any interest in them and would be happy if you spared them from me.

  13. jubilee:
    You are wrong.
    The threat is directed towards the site administrator and is accepted in any case - even if he later censors the response.
    Other people are also threatened if they saw the comment before it was censored (and in general - the comment was not written to be censored and as you can see - it was not censored)
    Just writing a comment that all you can do is censor it is harassment.

    Could it be that the money for the lawsuit comes from here?

  14. What AA is doing may border on harassment, but the science system reserves the right to censor comments. The legal system in Israel is a legitimate and impartial tool, and for that reason his words should not be seen as intimidation or threats.

    In general, a legal debate like the one AA is aiming for could drag on for many years and give another public stage to this painful public debate.

    AA! Harini wishes success to you and your defendants - that is, to all the people living in Zion.

  15. AA:
    Are you ready to identify yourself so that a lawsuit can be filed against you for harassment, intimidation and threats?

  16. Blizovsky
    A number of heavy donors were recruited to finance the filing of a class action lawsuit against websites such as yours
    The cumulative damage due to incitement against the religious and ultra-Orthodox public.
    Thousands of employees were not hired or their promotion was stopped due to incitement like your website.
    The representative lawsuit will be filed against both individuals and entities that engaged in this incitement.
    The amount may reach NIS 500 million.
    The issue is currently in the data and evidence collection phase. The lawsuit will be filed by the most senior attorneys.

  17. sparrow:
    You are invited to view the authorized statistics of the Forum for Equal Burden in relation to military recruitment.
    All the people of "His Torah and His Art" do not work and it is by their choice and not because of their exclusion by others.
    You are welcome to read the studies of Hadosh.
    Knows what? You are also welcome to listen to Amsalam! In your opinion, is he also motivated by hatred of ultra-Orthodox?

  18. Dror, as much as the media is not exactly pro-Orthodox, it has a lot of reservations and until it publishes something that upsets patrons (the management of the Broadcasting Authority, large publishers) it even downplays it so as not to upset the ultra-Orthodox, the ones who are to blame for most of the negative publications are the ultra-Orthodox themselves who continue to tweet about public opinion and cause For them to look for them - summer time, the law of the shepherds, the starving mother, the hospital in Ashkelon. If you check carefully, all the criticisms came after the ultra-orthodox's attempt to bite more and more into freedom in this country, and the fact that because of our corrupt politicians they are also successful.

  19. My father, with a hand on your heart, are you really 100% informed about the situation on the ground? How many Haredim really work "for white" and how many don't? How many have already managed to fit in high tech or low tech or in the Nature Reserve Authority?
    You also feed on the media and it is not exactly pro-Orthodox.

  20. For a proud ultra-Orthodox, nonsense in the juice. Those who are able to get a job are few and far between and most of them are born in the USA. The workplaces are happy to take in smart people, but you lack a background in all the basic things - math, English. So there is one or two percent of you who are geniuses and are able to grasp it in a one-year completion course, but the majority in every human society is not like that and requires a long training, which you prevent in a systematic and deliberate manner from your people. Especially in high-tech, you can build separate environments and even work from home.

  21. To my father and all those in the know, please do your homework before you generalize!
    Most of the jobs and professions you mentioned are blocked to us only because of the appearance and clothing! I personally managed a large factory in Israel with 400 branches! And of course I received the factory award for 2009 for the branches that were under my management, and only because of this win was it hinted to me that if I didn't want to get involved and get dirty that I would understand the hint and get out because they have no intention of allowing ultra-Orthodox to advance! And after two years of hard work, they remembered that I don't have the factory culture.... And that my abortion anyway was only above average and not some kind of genius... and there are a lot of stories like mine! So please give respect to science but first to the people who study science and there is enough room for everyone.
    Hoping for understanding.

  22. "Anyone who puts it on his heart that he should engage in the Torah and not do any work, and earn a living from charity - after all, this has profaned the name, and dishonored the Torah, extinguished the light of religion, and caused harm to himself, and took his life from the next world: since it is forbidden to enjoy the words of the Torah in this world. Sages said... love the craft, and hate the rabbinate. And every Torah that has no work with it, ends up void; And the end of this person will be the stigmatization of mankind"
    Maimonides - Talmud Torah Laws.
    Indeed - we have already reached the end and these parasites are already threatening the foundations of the country

  23. Matan, "everyone who is wrong in his own way is wrong", Maimonides wrote:
    "The one who disqualifies others always, such as the one who criticizes families or individuals and says of them that they are bastards, they fear that he is a bastard, and if he told them that they are slaves, they fear that he is a slave; everyone who disqualifies in his own way disqualifies."
    (Halakhot Isori Biya Chapter XNUMX Halachah XNUMX).
    Do not slander a man who finally makes sure that ultra-Orthodox children receive core studies such as math and science from an early age and do not fall behind their secular brothers, if he already has something to lose if he goes against all accepted rabbinic authority and not just the so-called Rabbi Ovadia. A final word to Michael, not all secularists are atheists, you know, a private belief in a higher power separate from religion and its laws which can be interpreted in different ways, if anything the right question is whether he agrees that the class orthodox interpretation of the Torah is the correct one.

  24. giving:
    You said you were secular.
    Come and let us believe it is true. Come and declare here that there is no God.

  25. What do you argue with this gift?
    He also doesn't understand why you don't understand that one plus one equals three!

  26. Matan, even if you are right, and his reasons are egotistical, it still doesn't change the fact that he said the right things. What is so good for the country that a public that makes up 20% of it elevates itself above the rest of society, while living at its expense? After all, the Governor of the Bank of Israel has also said these things many times, and even the Prime Minister and the Minister of Education are talking about this problem.
    As Yuval said, you have to assume that every politician is corrupt, but give him credit when he does the right things.

  27. For their part, what is not clear here.

    Your model implicitly assumes that there are politicians who are not corrupt. And it is not clear that every politician is corrupt, and if his scandal has not yet been discovered within the walls of the court, it is a sign that he is hiding well. There is no need to talk about what everyone knows.

    To this day, the media eulogies have been made for Ashkenazi politicians. Will the Spaniard become his skin and Frank his friends? I think you need to revise your thesis.

  28. I am amazed that things are not as clear to you as the sun at noon.
    The greedy little man realized that he had no chance of being included in the Shas team for the upcoming elections.
    Therefore ahead of time he must find a helpful agenda for the day of command. (Whistle to the ears of the media)
    The only danger for him is that he will be fired immediately.
    That is why he threatened in public that if Rabbi Ovadia asked for his throne, he would publicly despise him and refuse him.
    Rabbi Ovadia will of course not want to be humiliated, and our friend will be able to cling to his throne until the next elections.
    Until then, our media will praise him, and let's hope to enjoy fruit in the ballot box.
    What is not clear here?

  29. Rabbis like Rabbi Amsalem should be encouraged, because they encourage the integration of the ultra-Orthodox in the labor market and their admission to academia.
    The main problem of certain ultra-Orthodox factions is their opposition to the core studies and their non-integration into the labor market and of course their non-integration into academic studies.
    Read an article that Alof Ben once published about the integration of the Arabs and the ultra-Orthodox in the labor market. The problem of the Arabs is that they want to work and they are discriminated against in accepting many jobs, Ben wrote, while the problem of the ultra-Orthodox is exactly the opposite:
    These are the main things I wrote about the article once: On April 6, Alof Ben Maharetz published an article in the British Guardian under the title: "Israelis need to integrate in order to survive." In the article, Ben raises a problem that research institutes in Israel have been dealing with for many years: how to combine ultra-Orthodox and Arabs in the Israeli labor market. This is a research problem that engages many researchers and invests considerable resources in it. General Ben tries to explain to the British audience the problem which is understandable to every Israeli citizen.
    There are several issues here: First, should Arabs and Haredim be integrated into the army, and if so, how should this be done? Second, how to encourage the integration of Arabs and Haredim in the labor market.
    The article explains to the British that the increase in the ultra-orthodox population (the ultra-Orthodox) on the one hand and the Arabs on the other is the social time bomb that threatens the Jewish state and its long-term existence. and why? Because the Israeli politicians, economists and policy experts fail to solve the problem of their lack of proper integration in the labor and security market.
    If you are interested in the future of Israel," Alof Ben begins his article and his explanation to the British audience, "all you need to know is one statistic: among Israeli children in their first year of elementary school, about half are Arabs or ultra-Orthodox Jews."
    Ben goes on to say that this ratio is increasing. If we look ahead, a very different Israeli society appears, with the secular Jewish core shrinking. However, while this scenario is maturing, the country has to face increasing difficulties: it has to protect itself and maintain its economy.
    And what is the problem: the ultra-Orthodox Jews on the one hand and the Arabs on the other hand are exempt from military service and they are also not properly represented in the labor market. While their relative weight in society is increasing, the security risks in Israel and the economic collapse require soldiers and working hands. But the situation in Israel is that fewer and fewer soldiers and workers will protect the country and provide services to a large and growing population.
    Therefore, General Ben claims in the Guardian article, the long-term existence of the Jewish state depends precisely on the cooperation of the Arabs on the one hand and the ultra-orthodox Jewish citizens on the other.
    But there is a very serious problem with this, Ben explains to British readers who may not be aware of the population structure here. "Rape the Arabs and the ultra-Orthodox into military service and the labor market will not work. This will only increase social tension. While realizing this, Israeli politicians, economists and policy experts are confused. They have little to offer beyond small steps that will encourage integration and participation in the workforce, while noting the difference between the Arabs - who want to work, but find it difficult to find jobs - and the ultra-Orthodox, whose cultural norms prefer Torah study over employment."
    Then Ben writes later, “In Israel, the army serves as the base of the network. Our Oxford and Cambridge are the elite Army and Air Force units. (Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his main political ally Defense Minister Ehud Barak served together in the elite units). An Arab or ultra-Orthodox looking for a job, even with an academic degree, remains outside the club and usually encounters prejudice and discrimination in his workplace."
    This means that our army has become what the Americans call: Ivy League.
    Encouraging signs, Ben tells his British readers, show an economic necessity that encourages hundreds of ultra-Orthodox at young ages to volunteer for technical jobs in the army, which they see as a route to coolness in the future. They receive strictly kosher food and they serve in units that only have men. As for Arabs, you hear more and more Arab accents in dragsters and voice answering stations. Ben points out that in the last Big Brother production, an Arab contestant managed to reach the finalists.
    Ben is talking here about a drop in the ocean or beginnings and he points out that Israel cannot wait until a real social revolution takes place. To save the country from collapse, there is a need for a fundamental change in perception, the omission of prejudices and inter-tribal hatred. Minorities should be seen as promoters of the future economy. Ben calls for social integration as the key to the survival of the State of Israel and its prosperity, because we simply have no choice.

  30. My scenario:

    Amsalem is not the only Shasnik who reads (currently secretly, but soon openly) the science. He is not committing political suicide, quite the opposite. MPs from his party will join him.

    There is an important difference between the Sephardic ultra-Orthodox and the Ashkenazi ultra-Orthodox. The latter are close to definite anti-Zionist circles, and in their eyes the destruction of the Zionist entity is not the worst scenario to say the least. The Spaniards, on the other hand, are involved in Zionist activities and the fate of the State of Israel is important to them.

    Amsalem received a lot of praise here, which he certainly deserves, but he is simply doing what logic requires.

  31. Matan, that pretty much contradicts what you say. If Amsalem wants to keep his position in the Shas and the Knesset, why is he committing political suicide like this and making these announcements?

  32. giving:
    Maybe for you it is deep.
    For any reasonable bar (as opposed to a religious bar that strives for a thin bar) this is self-evident

  33. giving:
    Apparently understanding is not your strong suit.
    This is my answer to the question you presented.
    His honesty is expressed in the understanding that it is not possible (in terms of fairness and honesty) for the parasitism to continue.

  34. I understand that this is your argument for the man's honesty.
    I leave it to the readers to make up their own minds.

  35. Wai Wai Wai!!!
    I said sick and I didn't know how sick (and sick)!
    Do you know that we live in a democracy?!
    Do you know that in a democracy no outsider has the authority to tell elected officials what to do?

  36. What's important is that his words regarding the need for the ultra-Orthodox to work are true and correct and anyone with common sense should agree with them (even the Prime Minister said so, it's a shame that he doesn't back it up with steps beyond talk because of his fear of a coalition crisis), only that opinion is something that is in short supply these days.

  37. sick? So please…
    How can you explain the hidden threat in Hela's words towards his spiritual patron? (Even if Rabbi Ov.... I will not resign.)
    If I try a free translation, then I get something like this: Dear Rabbi Ovadia Shalita, if you dare to bring up in your mind the possibility of demanding my dismissal, I inform you that I will meet with a committee, that I will not hesitate to publicly humiliate you, and refuse you.
    And all this why? Because the chair is more important.
    And if you fire me, I will be forgotten in the abyss of womanhood, and who will remember me in the upcoming elections?

    Well, now you tell me about the honest man you're talking about.

  38. On the other hand, I like to read here, if you avoid taking a position condemning ignorance and in favor of education, then your children will not have a similar place to read.

  39. Moshe:
    Would you like to identify yourself?
    This is important in case someone wants to sue you for extortion through intimidation and threats.

    Your words do not look like the words of a secularist. Maybe you meant holly?
    This is an honest man who finally dared to tell the truth even though he knew well the bunch of snakes surrounding him.

  40. For those who like to read here, that's what the warning in the first paragraph is for, so that you don't bother reading what doesn't interest you. Especially when it comes to one article out of several hundreds of scientific articles.

  41. Dear writers, please, I have enough websites to read about politics, let's enjoy the quality content that was here until now. Too bad you ruined it.

  42. I suggest lowering the flame height.
    Abby, you can really convey messages, without the need for snide comments.
    What do you need all this fuss for?
    By the way, regarding Amsalem, he is just a small politician, who lost his place within the party.
    But he is not ready to give up the throne, like many politicians who stick to the throne like gum to a sole.
    What is despicable to me is that the man is willing to slander even the spiritual leadership that he is supposed to represent.
    Even as a secularist, I feel disgusted by him, so stop praising him, among us the man is shallow and stupid, and no one here is going to choose him, right?

  43. to my dear father
    I'm starting to understand why censorship is sometimes needed. This message and similar ones, apparently their whole purpose is to harm your site, so maybe it is really advisable to remove them from the site.
    Other than that, I read your words again and again and I really didn't see anything that could cause you to be convicted in any class action. Do not be afraid.
    Their anger rises to the sky because one of their own puts in front of them a mirror in which they see what they look like.
    Yes, there will be many of them
    good week
    Sabdarmish Yehuda

  44. Avi Blizovsky
    Get ready, we are preparing a class action lawsuit against you and your website
    With your incitement, you are causing various types of damage to the ultra-Orthodox religious sector in the country
    We will see you facing a lawsuit for 10 million NIS

  45. It turns out, calls Amsalam the scientist in secret and Rabbi Barish Gali in Agala and at the time of Karib

  46. In a country that is progressing in the opposite direction and more and more like Iran it will certainly be a miracle if this ever happens.

  47. Asaf - The separation between religion and state is part of the constitution of all progressive zadinas. This is not some kind of miracle or miracle from heaven.

  48. to separate religion from the state and as soon as possible.

    In general, religion should be separated from humanity, but until that happens...

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